Friday, September 21, 2012

Case in Point

Reactions to my essay about the upcoming "Belgrade Pride" have been typical - from diatribes against homosexuality to diatribes against "homophobia." Both miss the point.

I stand by my contention that attempts to organize a parade in Belgrade have little or nothing to do with persons of alternate sexual proclivities, and everything to do with humiliating Serbia and furthering the agenda of social engineering intent on destroying that country. At the very least, it's a distraction for other things.

You want evidence? Here's a screenshot from the Facebook page of Predrag Azdejkovic, a notorious professional "GLBT" activist:

He "dreams of being fisted by Nick Vujicic."

Vujicic, a man who has devoted his entire life to helping others (rather than whining about his condition), has no limbs.

How is that for tolerance, acceptance, human rights and fighting "H8"?


Zman said...

who exactly was reacting to your essay?? some crazy bosnian muslim blogger or something?

but yes you are quite right, the whole thing is obviously a scam. How many "anti-gay" protestors will show up? we know it's really anti-goverment and anti-the entire system.

kapetan Mile said...

i could not agree more. Be gay if you want to. but don't push it down our throat (not playing with words here)like they do in north america. beside'S it's not a place any sane person would take their kids to see a parade.

Branko said...

Sorry, this is unrelated, but there's another post blaming the Serbs for WW I, on the von Mises website.

Care to add your own comment?

Feel free to delete this comment. I just wanted to send you a message.

Suvorov said...

Another good glimpse at the MSM on RT:

Gray Falcon said...

Thank you for the link, Suvorov!

Branko, the comment is unrelated, but I'll post it anyway - and address it in a short post in a minute.

Don't be alarmed if your comment doesn't show up right away - everything is moderated on account of trolls, so they show up whenever I get a chance to clear them.

Senad Alihromic said...

@Gray Falcon: I don't know who Predrag Azdejkovic is, but yeah his comment is disgusting and in poor taste.

@Zman: I'm not Muslim or Bosnian. I'm a Serb, and I'm an atheist.

Secondly, I know that part of the riots are anti-government, but I find it difficult to believe it is purely anti-government. There is clearly a hatred of gay people involved. This is seen because you had the Church condemn the parades, so is the Church now anti-government?
What about the graffiti around Belgrade calling for the execution of gays? How is that anti-government?
Finally, what about the attitudes of people interviewed, or even on this blog, who seem to think that gay people are the cancer of Serbian society. How is that anti-government?

I'm genuinely curious so if you could enlighten me that would be great.

@Kapetan mile: Following your logic, Serbs in Kosovo should do everything the Albanians tell them to. Ever heard of individual rights? They aren't subject to the whims of the majority.

Gray Falcon said...

Senad, I didn't run your previous comment, so Zman wasn't responding to you. My guess is that he was referring to people who regularly troll this blog, since my existence damages their calm.

I respect your atheism. I have a fair few atheist friends. All I ask is that they respect my religion in return. By and large they do. But when professional (and I can't emphasize that enough) alt-sexuals go out of their way to insult religion, then what's a Church, Ummah or congregation to do but condemn them?

I find it hard to believe you live in Serbia, support "gay rights," yet don't know who Azdejkovic is: only the most prominent media whore in the movement.

Honestly, it ought to be intuitively obvious to a casual observer that the "Parade" is a red flag being thrust into the face of the Serbian general public, so it would redirect their anger from the EU, Empire, and their quisling government and onto the alt-sexuals. How exactly is this helping the alt-sexuals themselves? It isn't, pure and simple.

Senad Alihromic said...

I had a look at who Azdejkovic was after I posted the comment. He comes across as a nastier version of Perez Hilton, something I think Serbia doesn't need, and gay people of Serbia especially don't need.

I don't hate Orthodoxy or anything like that. I know that it is part of Serbian history and a massive part of our culture, and I'm completely fine with that. I like our churches, I think they are amazing and I like the sound of church bells and the way the interior smells and all the iconography. I have an issue though when the Church (or its followers) try to mix religion and politics. I'm a secularist. I believe people should be free to be religious or not. The government of Serbia is responsible for ALL its citizens, even the minority ones and the ones other people don't like. The Church isn't.
It's why I have an issue when the Church or its followers try to dictate to others what they can and cannot or should and shouldn't do, or when they try and make laws based on religious belief. Not everyone in Serbia is Orthodox, or even follows it properly. They cannot seriously be expected to leave. It would be wrong to kick them out of their own country. I firmly believe in COMPLETE separation of Church and State. Under that condition, I have zero issues with the Church. But when the Church tries to dictate the rules of my life, then I will fight back. I think that's fair.
"Your fist shall stop where my nose begins" sort of thing.

Is there any way we can converse through email? There's some stuff I would like to tell you, but I don't want to post essays on your comment space.

Gray Falcon said...

He's far nastier than Hilton, but yes, that's the general category.

I, too, agree that the Church cannot and should not dictate behavior to non-members. I'm entirely for live and let live.

And you can glean what I think of the state from the rest of my writings: insofar as it ought to exist at all, it ought to do its primary job - protection of land, lives and property. A far cry from the omnipotent interventionist/managerial monster of today, mind you.

If you leave your address in a comment, I will see it on the moderation screen; the comment won't get published, and I can email you back.

Francisco Lopez said...


Gay pride parades are counter-productive because they encourage homophobia and reaffirm negative stereotypes about homosexuals. Gay pride parades are about as representative of gay people as television programs like "The Jersey Shore" and "Bad Girls Club" are of straight people. Reality is that homosexuals are normal everyday people who look and act like everyone else, but that's not what you see in a gay pride parade.

However, as obnoxious and counter productive as I think gay pride parades are, I think the one in Belgrade should be allowed to proceed unobstructed. The right of free speech and the right to freedom of assembly should not be limited just because the content of what's being said is obnoxious and calculated to offend. Violence and rioting against a gay pride march is just as inappropriate and stupid as violence and rioting against a YouTube video or a cartoon in the newspaper.

When Terry Jones burned the Quran down in Florida he knew it would offend Muslims and he knew how they would react. That was the whole point. By burning the Quran, Pastor Jones successfully bated the Muslims into making his point for him. He could have stood at the pulpit of his church and screamed until he was blue in the face that Islam was a primative and violent religion, but he realized that it was more effective to just set a copy of the Quran on fire and then sit-back and let the Muslims made his point for him.

There are people out there who would like nothing better than to convince the world that the Serbs are a bunch of blood-thirsty neanderthals.

The gay pride march is Serbia's flaming Quran. The worst thing the Serbs can do to the organizers of Belgrade's gay pride parade is to totally IGNORE the parade. Getting angry and violent is exactly what they want the Serbs to do.

6f66778e-075c-11e2-a8a9-000bcdcb8a73 said...

As usual, threads like this diverge from the original point so quickly that the range of different issues becomes impractical to address by a single poster. This is all the more the case since I find something that I would disagree with in just about every post so far.

Firstly, let me say that I am in full agreement with Nebojsa regarding the true nature of these supposed LGBT activists, and find them truly disgusting. I do not think that I need to say more on that issue. On the other hand, I also fully agree with Senad regarding the general homophobic sentiment in Serbia which is entirely unacceptable, and ignorant.

That being said, Senad's comment on leaving religion out of politics, which appears reasonable enough at first sight, is in fact one of those cliché mantras which readily reveals its shallowness after just a bit more thought. How can you ask for religion to be left out of politics when for most religious people it is precisely this belief that gives rise to their moral beliefs and values? What do you base politics on if moral values are left out?

Similarly shallow is Nebojsa's comment on "respecting religious beliefs". Respect in what way? Do you ask me to respect it as I respect somebody's intellect for example, in sense that I admire it? Or do you merely want me to tolerate it as I tolerate somebody smelly in the street? One can tolerate something, and ridicule it at the same time. Would you consider that respectful in the sense in which you are using that word? Furthermore, would you ask for every belief to be tolerated in the same way, or are popular religions special in some way (the good ol' argumentum ad populum)? Do you respect my belief in gnomes, fairies, unicorns, etc? Please do not misunderstand me. I am not anti-religious at all. In fact, I think that one can have very good, and *rational* reasons for believing in God, although I am an atheist myself. However, hand on heart, these reasons are way above the intellectual or educational level of most (>(100-epsilon)%) people.

Gray Falcon said...

Francisco and the [long numerical string person] - I've posted your comments as a courtesy. I would argue with them if I had the time or the inclination, but I am about to do some traveling and will be away from keyboard for a while.

I don't rub my religion in others' faces, and so long as they are content to do the same with their beliefs (or lack thereof) we can coexist peacefully (and even be good friends). I won't deny my faith for anyone's sake, nor do I expect anyone else to do so for mine - but so long as we're dealing with "live and let live" I am content. Others, such as Azdejkovic, obviously are not. Hence the problem.

Senad, I got your message and will write you in a few days, as soon as I have time and opportunity.

Zman said...

hey about that crazy muslim dude in Sandzak calling for wahabism to be taught in schools.. Nebojsha do you know for sure that he gets funding from the US?? I can't find anything but it seems like he does.

Gray Falcon said...

Are you referring to "Mufty" Zukorlic? Wikileaks indicates he is on Empire's payroll, and the usual suspects have a "Friends of Sanjak" group (anything of theirs that starts with "Friends of" is bad news). Last I heard, though, he was voting in Srebrenica, and someone else became the head of the Islamic Community in Bosnia, so...